yes, i missed the manufacturing part, so what?

you missed the me being right part.

alexokp:

i have a degree in manufacturing engineering which is CNC machining, hand machining, basic welding, facilities design, auto CAD, metal casting, robotics programming, all sorts of design, more stuff.

You're right, it was manufacturing engineering. My bad. Regardless, how does class mobility, or the lack thereof, relate to Measure 66 or 67.

success is about being having a game plan and sticking to it even when things get hard. success is about understanding that you're work is worth more than you think you are worth. success is about working to achieve.

in 7 years i have almost doubled my gross income through hard work and smart business decisions. to say that i didn't have to work for that success is completely incorrect. it is completely incorrect for the majority of the population.

luno:

my opinion is about 75% of deliciousfuture's and 25% of aokp's. people marginalize that coming out of poverty is a battle of responsibility and decisions. IT IS. but apparently aokp doesn't realize that you need to be twice as responsible and hard-working as johnny beaverton to come from poverty to the middle class. making good decisions about staying in school and living on the straight and narrow SEEMS straightforward until you add all the other responsibilities and decisions and influences that are put on you from living in poverty.
?

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Johnny Beaverton prob has a Dad that beats his mom, cause he has a small prick and an high mortgage. Mom drinks because Johnny has ADD.

It seems like one side of this debate primarily uses exceptions as examples, while the other half is relying on statistics.
The gentle dusting of generalizations and race cards isn't going to make it any easier either.

Sometimes society makes mistakes.

NONSENSE

what's a "race card," big tuck? and how has it been employed in this thread?

haha yeah they have it so easy!!!

yeah then you'd be speaking from experience!
that'd be great.

wookie:

how does class mobility, or the lack thereof, relate to Measure 66 or 67.

there's definitely a connection - people arguing against progressive taxation use the same lines aokp was (at least, initially) using in this thread.

but if you have any questions or would like to discuss 66 & 67 directly, you know, go for the gold!!!

aokp:

why dont they just tax everyone?
125k a year is good, but i don't know about "hella rich".
why doesn't the state learn to live on a budget instead of increasing the budget?

They do tax everyone. Oregon has, essentially, a flat income tax. From what I've read since I moved here, much of Oregon's tax revenue comes from employment-based taxes (income, payroll, etc.). For a state with (again, from what I've read) historically above-average unemployment, this isn't a very stable system. It's not a matter of "learning to live on a budget," it's a matter of "Oh, shit! 12% unemployment, our revenue predictions are all fucked now!"

But I guess it's more fun to subtly call each other racists than talk about tax policy. On a FGSS message board. On the internet.

IM PRO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY DOESN'T EXIST FOR SOMEONE THAT WAS BORN PREGGERS.

race isn't relevant anymore! see, pop rap artist "The Game" said so!

are you saying that poor people are more likely to use drugs? that's a generalization! i know a hood dude who...

what slab did you choose?

or shall i say...

what slab chose YOU?

vastly different amounts of work are required to achieve similar levels of success based on your inherited socioeconomic position

success is a relative term therefore it cannot be ascribed to anything but exceptions.

toddistic:

success is about being having a game plan.

cant knock it

No idea what you just said.

Class :nerd.

how long has your family lived in the united states?

fucking ignorant "race card" bullshit like that's some kind of real problem

OH MY GOSH THESE MINORITIES CAN JUST GET AWAY WITH ANNNNNNYTHING!!!!! *****is completely ignorant to the overwhelmingly black prison population and otherwise historical, legal, and overwhelming discrimination**********

colorblindness is the new, less overt form of racism by the way

deliciousfuture:

aokp:

its important that when asking someone to vote, you also use the opportunity to convert their entire belief system.

i showed you why that's not true

since the stizzain just untrolled me, or i guess i untrolled myself idk. now i gotaa get all serious.
dfute-people keep calling you smug. let me show you this graph.