this is important! i imagine you've heard about this but just in case: the measures raise corporate taxes (currently TEN DOLLARS A YEAR) and taxes on hella rich people in order to pay for schools and health care and other public services.

holla at me if you have any questions. ballots are due tuesday the 26th. do it!!! it's your AMERICAN DUTY!!!

thanks todd. you are a good guy, strong rider and excellent voter.

Because growth is not predictable and a fast state growth can create a gap in budget needs vs budget projections. Basic economics bro.

Max is NOW!!:

Because growth is not predictable and a fast state growth can create a gap in budget needs vs budget projections. Basic economics bro.

got it.

While President Barack Obama was right when he said that raising federal taxes during a recession is the last thing you want to do, for states, raising taxes is not necessarily worse than cutting spending.

right, because asking "why" automatically makes you republican.

aokp:

why dont they just tax everyone?

progressive taxation is a cornerstone of our system. those that benefit most from the system have a duty to keep it going and are the most able to. also it's one of the few things that even attempts to rein in the divide between rich & poor that has been getting progressively worse since the 70's. have you seen number on income disparity in the us? the rich get richer, poor get poorer.

why doesn't the state learn to live on a budget instead of increasing the budget?

budgets have to increase with population growth and inflation under normal conditions. we are in the midst of a deep, deep recession, making everything worse. and the current tax rates are ridiculously low.

alrite guys really? my dads dad was poor, my dad wanted to be rich, so he gone dun it. now you want him to pay fpor your healthcare? get the fuck off pdxfixed, get a goddamn job, and pay for your shit. i dont come runnin to rivershitty everytiume i get a flat saying waaaaa i needa tube bitches obama says pay for it. no. i reach in my wallet pay that sh*t.
cash roolz my lyfe, thats my dedication, now you want me to give up my skrilla for those who only care aout smelling and looking dirty and riding their sweet fixxxxed?

well i don't look like an asshole now.
i'm okay with this!

just as long as you're okay with me being gay.

this is nothing new to me.

aokp:

this is nothing new to me.

so you don't disagree that the divide between poor and rich is growing. you disagree that the rich have more duty and ability to pay for the system that they're reaping the most benefits from?

okay, we can leave it at that. glad it sounds like you'd vote for these proposals.

wasn't trying to brow-beat you, economics is just one of my interests and i enjoy debating it :-)

what in some cases is just the result of people working really hard

people don't make money from "WORKING REALLY HARD LOL". tell that to people with 3 jobs and kids. people make a lot of money from doing well in school and life and being supported by 'the system'.

a system supported by taxes.

not trying to start a shitstorm, just sayin

good thread. the lack of emphasis on education in america is terrifying. Portland has a ghastly high school dropout rate.

ckkkgobbler:

got your back too much hate in this city for conservitism. i mean jeez everytime i tell someone im a christian there like what you believe in god and im like duh lol why the fuck would i wanna go to hell lol.,..
anyway aokp you seem like a chill due with good thoughts so if youi ever wanna hang out maybe chat about politics and god and stuff, im down (on the muff, LOL)jkjk
peace,
kev

please stop.

bicyCOLE:

ckkkgobbler:

got your back too much hate in this city for conservitism. i mean jeez everytime i tell someone im a christian there like what you believe in god and im like duh lol why the fuck would i wanna go to hell lol.,..
anyway aokp you seem like a chill due with good thoughts so if youi ever wanna hang out maybe chat about politics and god and stuff, im down (on the muff, LOL)jkjk
peace,
kev

please stop.

yes. please

.

luno:

what in some cases is just the result of people working really hard

people don't make money from "WORKING REALLY HARD LOL". tell that to people with 3 jobs and kids.

right. difficulty / amount of labor have little to nothing to do with earning potential.

people make a lot of money from doing well in school and life and being supported by 'the system'.

they are certainly being supported by the system, but think about the first part of what you're saying here. our cultural / economic system defines "doing well in life" as making a good amount of money. (at least enough to have the house in the suburbs, 2 kids, 2 cars, being able to keep up with fashionable consumption, etc. etc.) so it's really the other way around, if anything. people "do well in life" due to making a lot of money.

the question you should be asking yourself is if that's fair, good for society, etc. - especially in light of which activities are rewarded with large amounts of cash vs. small amounts.

aokp:

the luxury of going to school in itself can be the result of working hard.
a kid who practices freethrows until 2AM every night so that he can get a scholarship... is working hard.
and whether he wants to get a degree and start a career or see how far he can go with basketball.. it's going to take a lot of hard work.

it sounds like you're referring to working-class and poor children here, so in a sense you're right. college for them is a "luxury" that they're only going to attain through a huge amount of work, innate talent and LUCK. vastly more than is required for the rest of our society, to whom college is just another expectation. another nominal hurdle on the way to securing their place in the class system.

if having kids requires having 3 jobs.... don't have kids... go to school... get a higher paying job... then have kids or accept that you'll need three jobs. shit happens, but shit can also be avoided.

nobody's a victim of parenting. it's a decision and it comes with responsibilities.

you're speaking from a position of privilege that i don't think you even realize. (don't feel bad, this is almost universally true). this "shit can be avoided" if you have the education and resources to do it. guess who didn't: single mothers with kids and 3 low-paying, menial, degrading jobs. their upbringings were nothing like yours. a huge swathe of our population lives in abject poverty, in neighborhoods where there isn't even a goddamned grocery store, where the public schools are struggling just to keep kids enrolled and un-stabbed. a monstrous proportion of these people will end up in jail before they're fully grown and/or have family members and friends that will be swallowed up into the prison industrial complex. it's hard to overstate how differently their life choices and expectations are from yours and i'm only scratching the surface with these examples.

i could have a kid right now and be reciting those excuses, but i don't.
i went to school. and now i'm working. so that eventually i'll be able to make enough money at a job that allows something like parenting if that's what i choose to do. that might even require going to school again. if so, i'll do that and wait to have kids. but right now, the responsibilities are very far from what i want. i'd like to focus my hard work on other things for the time being.

if you're under the impression that hard work doesn't pay off, you've given up.

your consciousness and position in life are overwhelmingly a product of the situation (class, gender, race) you were born into. hard work has little to nothing to do with it, and that burden falls disproportionately on the poorest.

i went to an 8% white high school with a 45% freshmen-senior dropout rate and got a scholarship for percussion at a state college.

but i guess that's because i'm a middle class white male.

I'm pretty sure Andrew is ascribing, not prescribing.

as in, different shit can happen, but this is what has happened so far....statistically and in general.

when the word "you" is used over and over again and i'm told "where I'm coming from", i'm pretty sure it isn't "in general".

ive seen in person, not read on the internet or heard from a college lecture, but seen in person... from what was at one point statistically labeled the highest crime rate city in the nation, number two in murders in the nation and the worst school district in the state of texas .... what people from all backgrounds, races and genders can do to overcome. i've also seen what can hold them back. in almost every case it's come down to decisions. single mothers aren't born single mothers and influence doesn't impregnate them. people make decisions. ultimately their desire to be responsible or irresponsible defines the outcome of their future.

your consciousness and position in life are overwhelmingly a product of the situation (class, gender, race) you were born into. hard work has little to nothing to do with it, and that burden falls disproportionately on the poorest.

this completely trashes the efforts of anyone that's worked to overcome diversity or simply make good decisions. i think thats bullshit and an excuse for the unmotivated to remain unmotivated.

Dallas ISD was reported in April 2008 to have the 7th highest dropout rate of any urban school district in the US.[21] All 6 cities with higher dropout rates than Dallas in this study were smaller cities with under a million population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Independent_School_District

seriously, i'm just so fucking fortunate to be white and have my life handed to me.

i had my car stolen by a kid at my school while i was in class.. the car i worked all summer for so that i could take my dad to work at 5am, then go open the YMCA at 5:30am, then go to school at 8:30am, then go pick him up after i got out... the kid who stole that from me while i was in class... now deserves my financial support from the job i got after going to college? the job that requires me to get on the bus at 6AM everyday and get to work by 7AM Monday through Friday?

because he was a "victim of the system"? not because he chose to steal that car, skip school and get some girl pregnant but because the system made him?

please.

that same kids brother got a degree in music from prarie view a&m and now tours with jazz bands all around the world.
but i guess he just another exception that ultimately deserves no credit for working hard.

deliciousfuture:

do you not see how class is shaped by these decisions, and responsibility?

there ya go

aokp:

that is such crap.

tell em' how hood dallas is..

you could have easily gotten addicted to blow while in boarding school, gotten pregnant while in college or shot yourself due to the stress from being a consultant. these things happen. they result in poverty or death.

good decisions.